The Creative Process Behind Writing a Memorable Business Book With Ajit Nawalkha

Are you considering quitting your job to work in your business full-time?

You may not have to burn the boats or go beyond the point of no return, just yet.

Ajit Nawalkha is the author Live Big: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Passion, Practicality and Purpose.

From Jaipur, he's also the CEO and co-founder of online education platform Mindvalley.

As a business coach, Nawalkha also helps new entrepreneurs turn their fledgeling business idea into something they can work on full-time.

In this podcast episode, he explains:

  • Why you shouldn't quit your job, at least not yet
  • His process for creating memorable business books
  • What the creative process looks like for non-fiction writer and entrepreneurs

And lots more

Listen Now

Transcript Below

Bryan Collins: Ajit Nawalkha, okay, thanks. Okay, Ajit, perhaps if you could start by telling me a little bit about why you decided to write Live Big?

Ajit Nawalkha: It originated not originally as a book. Live Big was more something that I needed personally, for myself. I grew up in a household of 23 other people in India, which, of course, made abundance a priority in my life. I really needed to make some money to get out of the house and change my reality, and that got me to take early chances in life, and those chances led me to be a partner in a lot of companies and start a lot of companies, but, as it happens, once you are a little bit comfortable financially, you start to look at other areas of life. You start to look at, what else is there, for world, for me to get … in the sense, not get, but more like, okay, how do I organize my life in a way where I get to enjoy my relationships? I get to enjoy my friendships? I get to enjoy good health? And I saw that, as my [inaudible 00:01:18] wealth continued, and I was very aggressive in that context, everything else about my life wasn't as comfortable as I would like it to be.

Ajit Nawalkha: And so, I was like, okay, there's gotta be more to life than that, so I experienced a burnout, I experienced a very stressful time in my life, which got me to ask the question, because I never wanted to not make money. I was like, that's not a negotiation I wanna have, is to not be wealthy. I wanna be wealthy, but at the same time, I also believe that there is a way that you can have it all in life. There's got to be a way to have it all in life. And that sent me off on a journey to redesign my life and redesign the life of some of my clients. I start coaching, consulting a lot, and originally [inaudible 00:02:07] as much as really driven, and really purposeful, and really passionate people doing great work in the world, their personal lives were not at the peak that they should be or could be. So I started experimenting with a lot of ideas, and those ideas, the first was just an experimentation for myself, and really harden philosophy for myself, and, as that went and became true for my clients as well, I was invited to write this book to be able to say, hey, listen, this is a phenomenal thing, and a lot of entrepreneurs could make use of it.

Ajit Nawalkha: Because usually entrepreneurs learn these perspective shifts, as I like to call them, much later in life. They don't learn it initially, and they realize it much later when they have had their own burnout, they have had their own challenges in their business, and so forth. Why not make that education available much earlier? You not only learn how to grow your company, but grow your company in a way where you also get to live a very purposeful, fulfilled life.

Bryan Collins: One of the ideas that you don't believe in is being tied to your desk from 9 to 5, or working insane hours to become more productive. What should somebody do instead?

Ajit Nawalkha: Here is the thing. I don't mean to bash people who say work hard. There's nothing wrong with working hard if that is true to you. But people often confuse working hard as the only way of building a company, or only way of finding [inaudible 00:03:50]. It's a more romantic story to tell. Work hard, and work insane hours. Not only 9 to 5, entrepreneurs tend to work 12-, 15-hour days. And if that's your driver, good on you, go do that, but do know that that has consequences. It's like overeating. You can eat as much you want because you like the food, but there's gonna be consequences for it. It's the same with work. You work too much, there's gonna be consequences. [inaudible 00:04:16] you're aware of consequences, accept them, and you want that to be your life, good on you, go do it. The reason to do it is because you like it, not because that's the way to do things. That's not the way to do things. What one must ask, especially as an entrepreneur, or even as a professional, is, what is the outcome that I wanna drive, and what's the best way to get that outcome?

Ajit Nawalkha: You see, most of the time, the best way to get an outcome is to either build a better product, better team, or better structures within your team so you don't have to work that hard, and it's not because you don't wanna work that hard, but because that is the way to build a business. Otherwise, it's just a shop that has an overpaying job or over-stressful job for you. That's all it is, because there is no team, everything relies on you. How is that going to become a successful company? It's probably not. What's going to make it a successful company is because you have a driven team that supports that mission, that supports your purpose, that builds it with you, and processes to support your product and support your marketing systems so your business can continue to grow. Growth, business growth, or business development, per se, has very little to do with the number of hours you put into the business. Has a lot more to do with what you are doing or what you are creating, and who are you getting supported by, are you building a great home team? Are you building great practice and practical processes that helps your company constantly grow? It really depends on those factors way more than the factor of, how many factors did you do today?

Bryan Collins: So, how does a new entrepreneur go about building those processes that help save them time rather than working 60- and 70-hour weeks?

Ajit Nawalkha: The first thing that they have to do is, really have to look at, what is it that they do, and what is the core thing that really matters? For example, most of the business tend to do every new idea that comes to the company, or every new social media channel, they feel like they must be on it, because somebody said so, or their competition is crushing it on it, and so forth. Which is why most of businesses suffer the intensity of overwhelm, and they suffer the intensity of trying to do too much, and that's what kills companies, than lack of clients or something like that. It's just, they are trying to eat too much. They are trying to do too much too fast, and there is nothing to support it. So, first thing to do to really effectively create a process is to know what process they're gonna create. And that's literally the first step. It seems like the most obvious thing, but after working with a gazillion entrepreneurs at this point, I can confirm that that's the one thing that people do, is they don't go and say, okay, what is it that is important to the company, and what is it that is not important to the company?

Ajit Nawalkha: They might evaluate it once a year, the start of the year evaluation, and then they forget about it, and the rest of the year, they just keep going in the same circle of trying to do more and more and more and more, and forget that that's not what those company is. Those companies with really good, effective processes are doing the one or two things that really, really matter in the company. First step is to find what you're gonna build. The process. The second thing is, once you've found what you need to build, is you need to evaluate, how's the most effective way, with the least amount of effort, you get the maximum result. What is that one way? Now, it's different for every different part of the company and different stage of the company, because it depends on, again, the one or two things that you found. For example, the process that would look like for Facebook would be different for, say, Google. Or they would be different for how a product is built, or it would be different for something else, or a service-based company, it would be different how a service is delivered.

Ajit Nawalkha: The process changes depending on, what is it that the company's stage is, and what is the company product is, and how it is delivered, and so forth, but usually, once you've found the one or two things, and if you evaluated the most effective way to get to the outcome without concerning yourself about, what's the part of the process, you will find that you will be able to find a very effective process that will give you much faster results in a much shorter period of time, and would be very replicable.

Bryan Collins: I agree. I agree, Ajit. Could you give me an example of an ideal outcome for a new entrepreneur? Let's say they've set up a business as a coach, for example. What would be their ideal outcome that they should work towards?

Ajit Nawalkha: Let's say, if you're a new coach, your ideal outcome is, most of the time, will be getting great results for your clients. Or let's say you have already a great process for getting results for the clients, your ideal outcome might be, do you have an inflow of new clients, or an inflow of repeat clients? Now, depending on what is the different outcome, again, like I said, I can't say one size fits all, because no one size fits all. Depends on where you are in your business. If you're just starting shop, your ideal outcome is get one client and really deliver the heck out of it, right? Because that's what you need to do before you even go into market and say, I need a thousand of those, or a hundred of those. You wanna find one and prove that you can even get a result. Prove to yourself, prove it to the client. It's called proof of concept in a regular business. It depends on what you're doing.

Ajit Nawalkha: But most coaches that are part of the community in today's time, your ideal outcome that they are looking for is, how can I have more clients? Because they already at least have [inaudible 00:09:42] process, they know how to re-enroll their clients, and so they are really going, okay, how do I get more clients? For example, if that's your ideal outcome, you're going, okay, I need more clients that fit this particular profile of the client that I can serve the best and I can deliver my product the best to, you wanna ask, okay, where does this client actually hang out? I'm actually giving you the process right now of really finding these clients as well. The outcome is what? Outcome is, how do I get more clients? Let's say the outcome becomes 10 more clients this year. Coaching is a service-based industry, which means that you get few but really high-end clients, because the delivery of outcome is pretty high, usually. Again, depends on business to business. But let's say you had 10 clients that you wanted to get by the end of the year. You go, okay, I need 10 clients, where do my clients hang out?

Ajit Nawalkha: Most people make the mistake of going first to the largest channel they know. For example, all the clients hang out all the time on Facebook. That's the mistake that most of the coaches would make in that state. They would go, okay, let me go to the largest platform that I can find, which is Facebook, which has the most noise that I can find, and let me try to get clients from there. Well, if you're looking for just 10 clients, you might be better off not even touching the platform called Facebook. You might be better off actually looking at something that is much more targeted, where you can actually find your client and have a real conversation with them. It might start by saying, hey, go to the events where your clients go. You might already have that learning, and you might not need to go to that event to have particular type of learning, but your clients are still going there, because they want that outcome that you are actually trained to deliver as well. You can go there, you can hang out there. You can go to small networking groups. You can throw your own networking groups. Depending on, again, what's your core competence?

Ajit Nawalkha: Pick one of these. I'm not saying do all of them. Do one of these and you will find your 10 clients. That's how you think about, A, the outcome, and then you really build a process behind it instead of just going, how can I throw a strategy on everything that is out there, or how can I implement all the strategies that are out there? You find one strategy and you find if it works or it bombs. You're basically saying, hey, I wanna just see if this fails. If this fails, great, let's go to the next one. But if it works, great, I've found the one thing to do to get my next batch of clients.

Bryan Collins: I think many entrepreneurs are guilty of wanting to achieve many different outcomes. Something you talk about a little bit in the book when you say death by desire. Could you elaborate a bit on that idea and how somebody can overcome wanting to do everything and all at once?

Ajit Nawalkha: Well, we live in a world of overcommunication in today's time. Social media has done a lot of good things for the world. Amazing amount of good things for the world. But there's one thing that it's done really bad. It's that everything is overcommunicated, and everybody puts their best foot forward, creating a lot of social anxiety and social comparison. And social comparison, it would be okay if social comparison was there once in a while, but because it's always there in your face all the time, what has happened is, when we have a moment in our head to go, hey, right now I'm struggling, for example. And businesses mostly struggle, if you really think about it. Business is mostly failing and working some of the times, especially when you are trying new things quite often, quite frequently. Business is failing most of the time and working some of the times, is what happens in that scenario is we go, okay, it's not working because.

Ajit Nawalkha: And you be look at somebody talking about Facebook or Instagram, whatever the thing is, they're saying, hey, this is what is working in business right now. We look at it and we start to go, okay, that's what I need. Or we look at somebody else's, whatever result that they are posting for themselves sand their lives, and we go, okay, that's great results, I should get those results. It's not internally-driven, it's externally-driven, and when it's externally-driven, it's mostly the wrong drive, that you're having not because of any other reason, but because you're motivated by somebody else's life. Firstly, it's not consistent, because it depends on, you only know the story they told, you don't know the story that's the truth. Who tells the story especially … sorry, my kids, if you are hearing in the background, that's my kids.

Bryan Collins: Oh, no problem.

Ajit Nawalkha: I just had a new baby.

Bryan Collins: No problem.

Ajit Nawalkha: I apologize for that. But what happens is, who tells the story of them suffering? Very few people would tell that story. And even if they would tell that story, also then they would not want to share every detail of that story, because it's a tough story to tell. It's not a easy story to tell when you're telling a story about pain. But pleasure story, everybody shares, and they share it all the time, and they share it in a way which looks like the best foot forward. But you start to believe that that is the absolute truth, and because you feel that's the absolute truth, you start to believe that you are not doing something that's good enough. And that gets us to get excited about whatever the person says, okay, this is what is new, magic bullet!

Ajit Nawalkha: But we all know in our heart, there is no magic bullet. We are just basically following other people, thinking that their social truth is their real truth, and thinking that that's what's gonna save our business, so we are doing it out of good intention, but we're just doing the wrong thing. We're getting attracted by ideas that are not validated enough, that has worked for somebody else, does not really mean it'll work for you. It's not honestly you, because you are copying or trying to replicate somebody else success instead of saying, hey, what's honest to me? What is it that I can make work? Instead of saying, what is it that somebody else says works?

Bryan Collins: And considering what could work or couldn't work can sometimes mean leaving a job that's working or quitting an old way of working, and that's something you also talk about in the book. You say to not burn bridges, and you say that people shouldn't quit without a solid plan. How can you put that plan in place, and how can you move on if you're not going to burn the bridges?

Ajit Nawalkha: Usually what happens is, again, one of those things, it's a legend that everybody talks about: the person quit their job and they started this company and became multibillionaire. Most of the people, if you really look at those stories, they're good legends, but the true stories is, they didn't actually quit their jobs. Somebody researched it, I can't recall the name of the researcher right now, but they mentioned that there's a 30% more likelihood of you being successful in your startup if you didn't quit your job when you started the company. Because it shows that you are actually not a brainless … or you don't get excited and take risks. You are a risk manager. And business owners are risk managers. They are always taking risks, but they're very effective at taking those risks. They're very good managers of that risk. They know what they're risking, and they're not risking it all most of the time. It makes a great story, so you always say they risk it all, but they don't. They are actually very analytical, most of the very successful entrepreneurs that we aspire to be like, they're very analytical, smart individuals who say, hey, I will risk things, but I don't have to risk it all. They have calculated risk, as we call it. And that's what we need to consider when we are wanting to start something.

Ajit Nawalkha: You see, what happens is, most of the people, when they would start the company, they would just go, yeah, let me start, and they would quit their job, because they're getting frustrated or whatever. But, if you quit your job, what you do is, you take away your livable income. The income that you rely on. The thing, if you have a family, that pays for your family stuff. Or if you don't have family, pays for your stuff, your rent or whatever that is that needs to be taken care of, and because you need to take care of all of that stuff, if that income goes away, it puts an additional stress on you, it gets you to do things like quitting on ideas you've had. And you don't want that when you're starting up. When you're starting up, the three years are the hardest to develop. Because you're evaluating the idea, you're evaluating the product, you're making the product, all of that stuff. It's the hardest three years that you'll have in the business. After that, either it will work or it will bomb. You will know in the first three years if it'll work or it'll bomb. If it works, great, then you can quit your job. If it doesn't work, then it will bomb, and that's fine, you'll go to the next one. That's kind of how the process goes of a startup.

Ajit Nawalkha: How does somebody think about it? Think about it from the perspective of your minimum income that you need to survive. By survive I don't mean bare minimum survival money. You need a little bit of fun money in there as well, because if you don't have that, you're not gonna be able to re-fuel yourself as an entrepreneur, so you don't wanna just have the bare minimum where it's food and rent, but you want food, rent, the gym, the occasional holiday, whatever that is. There will be an amount that it'll add up to, and you'll be able to find that amount just by doing simple math. You don't have to go into the complication of it all. It's just simple math, okay, this is how much I need. You're probably making that much or a little bit more than that. Keep that, and then start your company on the side, like I said, in the first two, three years, build a product, do whatever you gotta do, and build enough income that you get to the same point, where you make that minimum amount of money and a little bit more so you can do your holidays and so forth.

Ajit Nawalkha: And when you get to that stage, that's when you quit your job. Because now your company is making a consistent amount of money that can take care of you and take care of yourself and your health and your food and your rent and so forth. And then you can start to work towards saying, okay, now I can dedicate full-time to it and actually get to revenue enough that I can hire employees, I can do all that stuff.

Bryan Collins: I suppose the person doing this will have to work extra if they're building a business on the side and they're also working at a full-time job.
Ajit Nawalkha: Yes. Yes. We call it extra time. This is the grind that you do only when you're starting the company, and that's why you do it. Or, if you have the funding already, then you don't need to do the grind. You can go straight into starting the company. But if you don't have the funding, you'll have to do the grind, yeah.

Bryan Collins: Okay, and you also talk there about quitting your job when you've replaced your income from your job. Should the person build up a certain amount of savings as well before they quit to go at their side hustle full-time

Ajit Nawalkha: Yes and no. It depends. It depends on how aggressive your spending looks like and how aggressive your spending in your business looks like. When you make that much money in your business that you can take care of yourself and a little bit more, usually you can take care of your marketing expense, and you can take care of yourself, and you can organically grow the company, but let's say you have aggressive plans of growing the company. Well, then you are gonna need savings, or you're gonna need investors. Savings just for yourself, unless you have a family, if you're in your 20s, 30s, honestly, it doesn't matter if you don't have a lot of savings. What matters is that you're starting to build toward the life that you really love. The savings will happen in time, but I'm not such a big proponent of saying, oh, you need to save a million bucks in the bank before you can start a company. No, it's fine.

Ajit Nawalkha: Just have a little bit of savings, of course, but you will have that, because you have jobs, you'll have your 401k or whatever that is, so just keep that, and that's fine for now. Remember, as an entrepreneur, if you're starting a company, your real wealth is your business. Your real wealth is not necessarily the amount of money in your bank account. And if that's the case, that the money in your bank account is greater than the value of the business, then maybe you need to invest more in your business, honestly.

Bryan Collins: Yeah, that's a good point, too.

Ajit Nawalkha: Because a valuation of a business is 2x, 3x, 5x of the revenue, 10x of the revenue, depending on the type of business that you are running, which means it'll be very hard to outperform the value of your business. It's not revenue, profits, whatever, but the point really is that, usually, your business valuation will tend to grow faster than your personal fixed deposit or whatever that is that you're doing. There's only a 5, 7% gain that you might get, if you're lucky, on your personal savings, but you can grow your business by 100% in a year. Does that make sense?

Bryan Collins: It does, it does. Yeah, no, I agree, the value of your business is worth more than your drawings at the end of the month. Just to talk about your book for a moment, it's very well-designed. For people who are listening who can't see it, there are sections in the book where you provide what are called visual memory clues. Could you talk a little bit about them and how you pulled them together?

Ajit Nawalkha: What we wanted to do, as a book, I didn't want it to be just the experience of reading. I mean, I love writing, and I'm a writer by passion, but, at the same point of time, I know there are a lot of books, and we read a lot of books, and what happens with books is, we start to read, and then we forget what it's about. They're written, usually, in a very sequential format, which means you have to read from first page to last page. I wanted this book to be a deskside book. I want it to be a reminder. I wanted it to be timeless for people who have the book. So, what I did is, I said, okay, what if I wrote a book that you could pick up from any page and start? So, that's first that you like about the book, that you can start from any chapter. You don't have to start from the first chapter to make sense of what I'm talking about, or what is the perspective there, or what's the story there. You can start from anywhere.

Ajit Nawalkha: And yesterday I was speaking at an event, and the creator of the event started by introducing the book exactly that way. They're like, I didn't know, I picked up the book, he sent it over to me … this is one of the influencers in Los Angeles. They were like, he sent the book to me, and I get a lot of books, of course, because he's an influencer, but I was like, okay, I'll check it out, so I just opened up a page, and then I couldn't stop reading for the next hour, which is basically, he read the whole book. You can read the whole book in maybe two and a half hours. So he was like, I couldn't stop reading, and then I loved it, and my wife loved it, and so we wanted to bring him on to speak to you guys. That was the first thing. I said, I don't want a book where you are forced to read from a particular thing because it won't make sense otherwise, and secondly, I didn't want it to be so heavy for an entrepreneur to read, so you will also see the writing's really easy.

Ajit Nawalkha: Thirdly, what I did is, I was like, okay, what happens with most of the entrepreneurs? Because we are taking so much information all of the time, entrepreneurs especially, usually are learning [inaudible 00:24:26]. They'll learn a lot. They're training a lot, they're learning a lot, they're reading a lot, they're researching a lot, and so I was like, what if I could give something that people could go back to and just, they don't even have to read the whole chapter. They would just look at an image, and that kind of reminds them of what it is. Learning is an auditory-visual, all of that experience build together. Physical, sensory, all that experience put together. So I was like, okay, what can I do that will be a image that will just stick in your head so people learn different, and people who learn with visual, very easy for them to capture visual, great. For them, that visual pops.

Ajit Nawalkha: That's how the book was structured, but that's also why we added tools to the book. If you go get the book, there will be a special link that is available inside the book that you can go to, and that link is not just an arbitrary link that we just wanted to put together as a bonus or something like that. There's a logic to it. It's actually an advanced learning of the same book that you had, but now we add the auditory experience and the video experience into it, so that way, what happens is, it becomes a complete immersive learning experience instead of just the book that you read or listen to as an audiobook.

Bryan Collins: I like the idea of repurposing the ideas in your book in different formats. The visual cues that you put together, did you draw them yourself, or did you explain to a designer, look, this is what I want to achieve in this chapter, or this is what the idea is, can you put something together for me.

Ajit Nawalkha: I'm a very bad artist. I don't know how to draw. So what I did is, I drew it, but if you see my sketch versus the sketch in the book, they look very different. And the reason is because they look very clean in the book. They're still done in a style which gave the element of that they are hand-drawn. You know it because you have seen the book, but first I drew it. I said, this is what I want to be drawn. And then the artist went in and made it look … that people can actually read and understand what the heck I was drawing. I created the original art and sent it over for reproduction in a better way from an artist. An artist was commissioned in a way, correct, yeah.

Bryan Collins: Yeah, yeah, they make your book stand out, still, they look really good. And finally, one other idea that comes across in the book is the idea of finding flow and creativity at work, so that's something a writer can find if they're sitting at their desk writing a book like this, or that's something an entrepreneur can find if they're building their business. What tip would you give to somebody who doesn't feel like they've found that flow just yet, or that sense of creativity?

Ajit Nawalkha: Creativity is such a interesting topic that we could talk for hours just on creativity. There are two things that, if I could leave people with in understanding creativity a little better. Firstly, creativity is not a … epiphany, or the “aha” moments of creativity, don't happen just because. It happens because there's a structure to it. It's because if, let's say you are a creative writer, you sit on a desk and you write, even if there is no creativity. You write. It's how you get creative writing out of you. You sit down and you write and you write. And that's structure to it. And I think I give an example in, not in this chapter, different chapter, of, I think, Steven King, who's written several bestselling books at this point, is that he has a process to it. He's like, I sit down every day and I write for four hours, just like going to the office and writing and that being a job. And he just writes, and he writes until 12 in the afternoon, that's his daily process, and that's how his books become really, really good, eventually. Because he has done it enough times that creativity is normal to him, it just flows to him.

Ajit Nawalkha: It's not hard for him to get into that state, and even if it is, he would still go out and write, because he know that's the path to creativity, is to write and get the words out of him, same as for anything else in our life and careers. The way to really get good at something is to do that thing, and to get good at it, you gotta get good at it. You gotta do it. That's the first part of creativity. Second part is the whole element of flow. Flow is a thing of challenge and skill. A great research was done … it's been research that we've been doing for centuries, I think, because human beings have always wanted to have a better performance for themselves, or wanted to be more high-performing, and they wanna find that state always that they find after painting for hours and hours. They wanna find that state, they wanna get to that state as quickly as possible, and so, a few years ago, a book came out, name of the book was Flow. It's by a guy called Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, and in the book, and I'm kind of like, he has a really great document, people should totally go check it out, but I tried to summarize it into a simple thing that people can understand in a minute, and that's basically, flow is a function of your challenge and skill.

Ajit Nawalkha: If you are skilled at something, which means, let's say, for example, if you were talking about writing, if you're good at writing, and you enhance your skill of writing, if you give yourself a challenging enough task, you will find the state of flow. But the challenge can't be too big, because it creates frustration. It can't be too small or not challenging at all, because you'll get bored. It's a fine balance to find, hey, is this task that I have assigned myself to, is this big enough but not so big that I will want to give up on it? You want it to be big enough but not so big that you give up on it, but at the same point in time, it's big enough for you to have that challenge where it pushes you to the edge and gets you to get a better performance out of yourself. That's how you find the state of flow. Now, of course, like I said, it's some deep science, and ask Mihaly, I think later Steven Cutler also wrote a book called, I think, Superman was also related to it, but related to performance sports, and Stealing Fire is a big document on finding flow states, which, some ideas are kind of controversial, but it's a great book to go check out.

Bryan Collins: I'm not familiar with Stealing Fire, I must have a look for that. Where can people find you, Ajit, or your book?

Ajit Nawalkha: For the book, just go to LiveBigTheBook.com, L-I-V-E-B-I-G-T-H-E-B-O-O-K, LiveBigTheBook.com. And you'll find multiple options to be able to get the book depending on where you are. Like I said, as you get the book, you have the option of also getting a free program with it with actually the enhancement to the book that is available to you once you get the book. Once you get the book, you will also find multiple ways to actually connect with me, and I'm available at any of the social media platforms, so you can go to Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, I'm available at all of them, or my team is available at all of them, and I'm available, I steel respond to everything, so it's all good, I'm still personally available for if there are challenges and discussions to be had.

Bryan Collins: Great, thank you, thank you, it was nice talking to you. Okay, thanks Ajit!

Ajit Nawalkha: Absolutely, thank you.

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